Ted Nordhaus and Michael Shellenberger:

Paul Krugman asserts that a carbon price is still the most important climate policy because… well, because he's Paul Krugman and he says so.

via breakthroughjournal.org

Now, I can get annoyed with Krugman as much as the next guy. But here is the part of the interview with Ezra Klein that Ackerman and Shellenberger find so offensive:

Let’s step back for a moment. What do you think we should be worrying about in 10 years?

I really think 10 years from now the signs that we’re on a runaway climate change will start to become a lot more obvious. It won’t be big rises in temperature yet, but will be enough to make people look around and say, oh my God. But by then, it will be very hard to bring it under control.

Are you a technological optimist on this?

Well, there are different kinds of technological optimists. One kind of technological optimist says we’ll spontaneously develop technologies that give us perfectly clean energy. I think so long as fossil fuels are cheap, people will use them and it will postpone a movement towards new technologies. And then there’s geoengineering, which we may eventually use out of desperation, but is full of unintended consequences and political questions. That won’t affect all countries equally. It will hurt some countries and help others. It would be a helluva thing to throw into the global situation.

I’m a technological optimist in that I think if we had appropriate pricing, we’d find it remarkably easy. The cost of getting out of rising emissions would be much lower than legend has it. But I’m not politically optimistic that we’ll do that.

So you’re an economics optimist. You think if we got the price right, we could get the technology right.

Yes. But it’s scary stuff.

My criticism would be that no economist can really make a ten year geoforecast ("runaway climate change"). And I'd also critique the notion that anything so huge is easy. But, I don't really find anything to suggest that Krugman is being Krugman here. 

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  1. rjs Avatar

    sometimes krugman is like the guy on the next barstool who’s telling you about something he just read in a magazine in the dentist’s waiting room like it’s his own idea…

  2. Richard Gerome Avatar

    Innovation is magical thinking, if not a weasel word
    I fully agree that an economist can’t make a geoforecast of any duration, but likewise economists may be a bit presumptuous making forecasts about the rate of technological innovation without being familiar with the particular system or field that that is assumed will carry it out—mostly engineering. I don’t know much about Krugman, but I did read Shumpeter’s book and I doubt that he would agree with the gist of the “creative destruction of climate economics.” Schumpeter argued that since capitalism is a process, it is unsuitable as an end in itself. Does the reasoning behind his argument not hold with the process of technological innovation?
    The Environment and Directed Technical Change, says The Economist, “looks at things like patent citations to show that there is an inertia to innovation.” Inertia to innovation? Holy smoke! We now presume to know what the pace of innovation should be and consider it quantifiable and homogenous over time and across the various realms of physics, disciplines, and practical limits, making investment a reliable antecedent to creating the particular intended outcome of our choosing. Forecasting any nonlinear, emergent, episodic process using linear models can only be done in the absence of a tipping point that destroys one of its many necessary assumptions.
    Perhaps the reason why something so huge is easy to Krugman is that the hard (or impossible) part is establishing the pricing—after that there’s no work at all. There is nothing wrong with investing in clean energy, but in my humble opinion, internalizing costs of fossil fuels is justified in its own right. What establishes this right? First, while the market can be manipulated or disregarded much of the time, market forces are self-perpetuating and it is relentless, even as we sleep. It will eventually seek equilibrium, often in an unfortunate way when we consistently reason away or ignore external cost and consequences. Second, it is unethical to impose transaction costs to those who have nothing to do with the market activity, including those in the future. That is completely contrary of the American legacy of leaving a better world to each successive generation.

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